A respected Native American grandmothers experience of being assaulted by New Age Fraud and Plastic Shamans.org
John LeKay: When did you first hear about NAFPS and why did you join this group?Robin: I first heard about the NAFPS through a member of their group. It was my first time that I had ever gone into a forum on the internet. When I first went into the forum, it was very foreign in the sense that there were many names of people in research and frauds, that I had never heard of. I tried to read through as many posts as I could to grasp what the main focus of the group was. However, I myself had a specific role to play when I joined the NAFPS and that was to involve myself on the inside of a group called the CKY to expose who and what the group was, to obtain as much information on the individuals as possible, especially those that held the ranks of what they called "priests, clan mothers, and chiefs".
JL: After reading the numerous posts in the so called "research" and in "fraud" columns, what was your initial gut reaction, your intuition telling you about to what you had read?
Robin: As I began to read through the posts on groups or individuals, I saw a pattern within the group which I had discussed
with another member, and that was; for the number of members that were in the group, I saw only a small handful that posted or responded. Those that posted would sometimes cut and paste emails of outside individuals, without any substantial proof the person existed or what they said was truth. Most of the postings were based on mainly links provided, which many times led to more hearsay of others. Some links did provide, in reading, show that the the group or individual proven evidence that the public should be wary of.
Also, I became aware that it was common practice that if a post was made of an individual or group, it was bombarded by several posts of accusations, hearsay, at times much deletion and editing (and in reading what was deleted or such that the person defending themselves did not write things that warranted such editing nor deletion). This reminded me of seeing a child in a school yard being ganged up by several children. These were usually posted as "childish behavior, insults, racial remarks" to give a few examples that were and still are used; giving the impression to many reading the post that the person defending themselves are viewed as a guilty person through unfounded remarks.
When nothing more could be said, then another post would be started on a new subject or person. I, myself, saw a small portion of the many posts where someone from the group actually went out and gathered facts that were of credence.
My own personal feelings on the matter was that I was involved within a group that was damaging people that may not have deserved what was printed about them. I knew that the nafps was not what it appeared and before Mr. Carroll and I had a disagreement, I had already made the decision to leave the group
JL: What conclusion did you draw as to what this group was about?
Robin: My conclusion of the group as a whole is based on not my opinion but facts. The whole system of the nafps is based on emotions of dysfunction, there are contradictions; much are based on "do as I say, not as I do". The group as a whole consists of white people that have little to no knowledge of native people and customs, except through books, cyberspace, and limited contact with native people. When there has been in the group - actual tribal members - when expressing their view on something, in most cases have been brushed aside or attacked. What is held sacred in the group is not that of native culture, but moreso of themselves and their beliefs on how native people should act or behave according to their standards.
This is not a group that base their foundation on native culture, but that of personal beliefs of what they have either read, or picked up small bits of information from actual native people. The saying that some people know enough to make them dangerous, in this case it would rightly apply.
JL: Why did you have a disagreement with Mr. Carroll?
Robin: There had been communications between Al Carrol and myself about the CKY, and what I was going to do. Once I joined into the CKY group, I tried to converse with as many people as I could to gather whatever information I could. The CKY based their beliefs on new age of Atlantis with a mix of Mayan, very little Cherokee and other beliefs that were totally made up by members. As soon as I joined I was told I would call Jerry Edwards along with other male members "priests". I replied that if I was to follow "traditions" then they should do the same and speak to me only through my husband and not myself directly.
This angered Jerry Edwards but not to the degree of kicking me out. About the third day of being a member, I had received a phone call stating there was a picture of me and a map of my location on their web page. I immediately emailed them and told them if they did not remove it I would contact the police and FBI.
Within 2 weeks I received a letter from an attorney representing them with unethical threats. In first reading it, I thought it was a joke, due to the stationary used, the way the letter was worded unlike all the attorneys I know. So I called the attorney and it was not until I left a message that I was calling the bar association then did he return my call. In my conversation with him, he was very vague unlike the accusations that were stated in the letter. In the meantime I did begin the process to file a complaint against the attorney.
I had retained an attorney in Ky. that would take the case. I had received a letter from Al Carroll that backed up what my case was based on. In the meantime, Al Carroll had posted on his site through a cut and paste that one of the members of the CKY was going to join the group, this person named Starr was one that was involved in the case we were building against the CKY and had given Edwards' attorney false information about me.
When reading the post from Al Carroll in his group it as I said was a cut and paste of a letter that was to appear to be that of Starr. In his posting he said that Starr had seen the wrongs by the Edwards and was now going to join the nafps. This became a contradiction, and also a conflict of interest concerning my case against the Edwards, Starr and their attorney. When I stated to Al Carroll he was wrong for allowing her into the group at that time, I felt he was slapping me in the face as I stated to him. His response which he has now removed from the nafps board, but I have a copy of , was of this" did you not forget that you yourself was once a delusional and confused woman that was a member of the CKY"? This statement that he made was a means to validate what he was doing. And to make it appear that I was actually a real member of the CKY but had come to my senses and was converted into exposing frauds.
So I posted emails between he and I showing what he was saying was not the truth, that he was compromising my case by changing his story of what the truth was. He deleted many of them shortly after I posted them. In his personal emails to me, he thought I was wrong for being angry, that what he had posted should have no bearing on my case( which in fact one of the strongest points in my case were based on what Al Carroll had stated in a letter to the bar association and the public) That I was disrespecting him, and then continued with emails with taunts. However he had for whatever reason changed his mind and instead posted that I myself was nothing more than a confused woman involved in a fraud group.
Since that time he announced that this woman "Starr" had joined the nafps she made a intro post on July 12, 2006, but has never made any other posts or replies in the nafps.
It was also at that time he was attacking Scarlett Kinney. She and I had come to an understanding of each other through mutual respect. I had read her site and in communication understood what she was trying to accomplish and that perhaps I could share some stories with her and some personal insight. This is by far selling out my traditions as stated by Al Carroll this past April in a group forum in Tennessee.
I myself have been very busy and involved this past year with children that have been given up by their biological mothers and are wards of the state. My husband and I took a newborn in last July and just recently finalized the adoption. We are not licensed foster parents and do not receive any kind of assistance nor state aid for what we do, it comes from our pockets. As I stated to Al when he made the post that yes I was selling, but not traditions, I was selling my personal belongings to pay for the attorney fees in the adoption, and if he liked to go on ebay and see what I was selling, had sold and perhaps maybe he would buy something that would be making a positive contribution to a child that needed a good stable home. In the adoption process you must go through several background checks, criminal, physical, and psychological.
My husband and I both passed and in fact it was recommended to the judge through these background checks that the process waive the 6 month grace period. If I was a unstable person or a person of questionable character I would not have been granted the adoption. That in itself shows the untruths that Al Carroll has said about me. I have not had time to doing nothing more than care for children. No where have I sold out traditions, nor made public appearances in regards to ceremonies or teachings of traditions. Al Carroll posted under a unknown name, "That I had sold out to white exploiters" was traced to the Jordan School District in San Antonio, Texas.
His posting of untruths about me has not come from research, but through words like that of a little boy that needs attention, whether it be good or bad. what is interesting about all this, I am not a public figure in no way whatsoever, I am a housewife, mother, grandmother nothing more. I have nothing to gain in the public's opinion of lying. The public opinion is not a priority in my life, what is, are the children I take in and care for.
JL: Were you also attacked by other members of the NAFPS group or just Al Carroll?
Robin: The dynamics within the group if attacks occur usually fall into the hands of two people, Al Carroll and Moma Porcupine. But if there were a conflict with Al Carroll, I believe that in my situation, if some did not agree with how Al handled the situation, they would not nor did they speak up on the matter. In fact is was quiet the opposite, no one spoke on the matter. It is more an attitude of sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist. And go on to the next subject.
However I did forward an email to Barnaby from Al Carroll and I did this only to prove in fact I was truthful in the matter. The answer that came back from him was, " what do you want me to do about it?" In sending it I already knew that I would receive a response that would be of an answer such as that. I did receive a personal email from Annika asking me to reconsider leaving the group, pointing to me that perhaps "Starr" was a changed person and should be given the chance to prove it. But she also stated that if "Starr" was not, it would be easy to see if it was more of a way for a fraud to come into the group to create discord. I did not have it in me to tell her, that I thought Al only wanted everyone to think "Starr" was part of nafps, for the reason which if looking at it from the outside view, was to get drama and more readers in the room at the time. This is also another tactic used to bring people in to read, to create sensational reading. But what it really is, a form of personality dysfunction.
When it comes to confronting Al when he is wrong, there is no objectivity there within the group. It is a matter if you read the
many posts he makes, you will not find any in the group that will voice or posts anything that might be in disagreement with what he says.
And if one does, the pattern is Moma Porcupine will come in and attack the person, then Al may come in with passiveness,.
However they seem to tag team who is good cop / bad cop. Never do they log into the nafps at the same time. In fact when reading some of her more recent posts, there has been a large difference in how she writes. Which is leading me to believe the Moma Porcupine is actually a man pretending to be a woman, or perhaps a man that is like a woman. If you take a closer look at the two main attackers, Al Carrol and Moma Porcupine, why do they do this? Because they have the most to loose on the board, and that is the board itself.
I did feel some undertone attacks with Moma Porcupine at times, which I found somewhat puzzling. Because most of the time it was based on unimportant and unrelated issues that were borderline paranoia. Other than Al Carroll and Moma Porcupine there were no others that attacked me, yet no one made any attempts to defend me either. It reminded me much of a person walking down the street and is mugged, many people walk by yet do nothing, some of the reasons people do this is, do not care, do not want to get involved, or fear alone. There are undertones of fear in the forum, which do remind me of someone living with an alcoholic, there is fear of unpredictability of not knowing what the person will say or do. Always on guard to defend the perpetrator. For fear of being rejected, smeared, damaged or hurt in some way.
JL: Do you know if other members of the group were smeared, damaged or hurt for confronting Al Carroll. Robin: Yes there have been other members in the nafps that have been attacked.
Annika Banfield Bio aka Freija. 5 star member
JL: Who is Moma Porcupine, who is Barnaby McEwan and who is Annika Banfield? Are these the primary players other than Al Carroll? What do they do besides posting on nafps? Where do they live and work?
RL: Momma Porcupine is anonymous. She gives no information of who or what she is, nor where she lives or what she does. I believe she is a man and is actually two different people posting under that name. She has no intro in the group. Barnaby, I can only say he lives in the U.K. what he does, I have no information other than that. Annika is a friend of Al Carroll's she lives in Sweden and has done filming on native American issues.
JL: Do you see a behavioral pattern as to the dynamics of the group? In other words is there internal email dialogue amongst each other as to how they will deal with a NAFPS dissident for example?
Robin: Yes, there are emails that are sent between members in regards to issues posted and how one may handle the situation, what could be said, what to do and not do.
If receiving e mails from Al Carroll stating that if I talked to certain individuals, that it would also make me a fraud. I would have to say yes. I received 3 emails from him in regards to who I talk to. I would like to leave it up to anyone that might read this to form their own opinion of how they would view this as an outsider what this would be considered as. JL: Al Carroll has been unable to prove his apache origin. The fact is he he is not enrolled, recognized or affiliated with any apache tribe. Using his mathematics, couldn't Barnaby McEwan hippy from England also say he is part Mescarleo apache? So could Annika Banfield who is from Sweden?
Why you believe he has not been able to prove who he is or what his roots are and what exactly do you think this would mean to most Native Americans?
Robin: Al Carroll in his own words has stated in his blog were two comments from two native ladies, one he names is Annika, the other Momma Porcupine. Annika I suppose would be native of Sweden, but not here in the states, and Moma Porcupine has stated herself she is not Native American, so I do not know what that statement would actually mean if it is in the terms as I just stated. Otherwise it is a fabrication of Al Carroll trying to pass them off as Native American women. I have seen many friends that are Native American that were adopted out, yet have been able to find and locate their biological families.
I have a daughter-in-law, her father is Hispanic and her mother is Hispanic/native mix, yet she herself does not say she is Mexican/Native mix, she says she is Mexican.
I have seen many Hispanic people for whatever reason say they are native, but has no proof to their bloodline of being native. When a person states they are unenrolled this means 1) Their native roots go so far back that they do not qualify with a tribe according the the tribes Blood Quantum requirements, 2) They can not produce any family names that would link them to a tribe.
In most cases ( I underlined most because it is not implying all) people that are unenrolled under say the two examples I gave, having no knowledge of the culture, language or ceremonies, and in Al Carroll's case I have only seen him use Lakota words which that in itself says quiet a lot. It says he knows very little to none of his own culture that he proudly shouts out. Yet not proud enough to learn it. In my family there are 3 tribes, I myself can converse with all of them. I have been taught the languages, the customs, the ceremonies.
If Al Carroll can not prove he is Apache, nor speak the language, or even know some of the customs, the question would be why does he find it necessary to say he is Mexican/Apache? If you look at what he actually does, that in itself will answer the question.
Al Carroll aka Educated Indian is the ringleader of NAFPS. 5 star member
JL: Do you know how the apache feel about some one who claims to be representing them and is attacking other tribes and medicine people and meddling in their business? What is this doing for intertribal relations?
Robin: I have one friend that is from the White Mountain Apache Tribe. We have discussed this issue in the past. It has angered her to see Mexican people state they are Apache. As she has said "none of them speak our language, what do they know about being Apache?"
I am not a member of the Apache and can not speak for them, but what I will say on the subject is that no tribe wants anyone that is not appointed to speak for them, speak out on matters that concern their traditions or culture.
John if I may put it this way, you are from England, is that correct? How would the people in England feel if someone from a foreign country set up a web site to discuss matters of the political, and religious practices of England? How many Catholic Popes have declared Kings and Queens of England to be heretics? It is the same mind set. Do foreigners have the right to appoint themselves to be over seers of other countries? No, just like in this case with the nafps they do not have the right to oversee matters that do not concern them, they do not live under the same laws as those on reservations.
They do not live in the conditions, nor walk out of their homes every morning and deal with the issues that many on the reservations are dealing with on a daily basis. There may be one or two on the board that might live in the Native communities and deal with these issues, but it does not give them the right to speak on behalf of their tribe or other tribes. The native communities are filled with gangs, violence, poverty, abuse, homeless, jobless. The forum itself instead of focusing on a handful of frauds, they would be more constructive if they were working with the tribes to help the many overcome the issues that I have pointed out. It is very sad to see in a recent posting that one of their members who works with his tribe to cultivate their natural resources to improve his tribe and preserve for their youth's future, to be put under a microscope by Moma Porcupine and try to imply that he is exploiting his culture.
Read what Martina Looking Horse, Arvol's sister has posted recently , in it she speaks about outsiders and the damage they have and are doing to the Lakota people. She herself along with many others do not want outside meddlers involved within the Lakota communities, customs or traditions. What would make the nafps exempt from this? Nothing, this includes all with no exceptions.
JL: Would you say that this group is doing more harm than good or vice versa?
Robin: I myself have seen very little positive come from the group. As a whole they may think they had done much good, however that is a state of denial that many of them are in. The tribes themselves are the ones that should and are handling frauds. To have people that are not enrolled in the tribes, having stepped out of their boundaries and have imposed themselves in matters that do not concern them is disrespecting the elders and traditions. JL: Have you ever known this NAFPS group to retract their comments or humbly apologize to anyone?
Robin: I myself have never seen anyone apologize in a sincere or humbling manner. Nor have I seen anyone retract any comments made toward a person they were attacking.
Jaye LaValle letter
Tommy Lightening Bolt on NAFPS