Monday, February 4, 2013

draft..John Clinard This Genocide Watch article is outrageous.
If you believe Jack Goins and Roberta Estes then you believe anything in order to keep from admitting to the Native American Indian ancestory.Melungeons Were Space AliensCome to think of it, I don't think it has ever been adequately explored if the Melungeons were in fact the missing Third Colony of…
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  • John Clinard This Genocide Watch article is outrageous. It contains so many misrepresentations it should be read with high caution. That’s my opinion after studying the Estes paper. If anybody from this group could write a paper for a journal that is as good as the Estes paper, then they should certainly give it a try. Then we could hear/review the alternative point of view and have a chance to study it, also. But all we get is jabs and cuts. Nobody knows enough to refute what Estes has written… an article that was reviewed for a meaningful journal. If any of us ever expects to win an argument of ideas, then we better write down what those ideas are and start supporting them with facts and well-thought-out discussion. Plus, the Estes article does not shut out NA mixing for Melungeons. It says that the DNA data examined does not support it, nor does it disprove it. Only one core Melungeon has a Y-line that’s NA (Q hg). The autosomal DNA proves nothing because it does not allow tracking ancestors past about 6 generations; “the special D9S919 test neither confirms nor eliminates Native Ancestry from their heritage”, Estes admits; and the mt –DNA was so scant it should have not even been included. That’s a mistake that Estes made, I think. I could not find it written anywhere in the article that all Melungeons have African blood; could you? In fact she says “of the 15 core surnames 6 carry African heritage”.
  • Linda Bergere Beats me. I am still studying the issue and playing catch up with everything cited in just this FB group. That plus working on my mtDNA of L3e3b1 and my autosomal Native American. I need to take a genetics class and stop relying, like Blanche in "Streetcar Named Desire" upon the kindness of strangers (even tough they are kin) to explain how it all works in Relative Finders on 23andMe and FTDNA. Haha. I am still angry after seeing the big REFUSED stamp on my GGrandma's application for Dawes Commission. Rethink that. Would I be here now, if they had been granted land. WUTEVA
  • Linda Bergere And I will render an opinion after I review all sides.
  • Scott Preston Collins John you must be crazy. We have presented tons of evidence to refute everything Goins and Estes have written in an unscientific JOGG journal report where the DNA collected wasn't collected scientifically. You don't know what your talking about.
  • Scott Preston Collins I'm sure Joanne Pezzullo would have something to say about your comments as well. Everything presented at Genocide Watch is spot on based on government definitions and presents the facts as they are.
  • Joanne Pezzullo @John - the comments about the genocide paper wouldn't be so ridiculous if you wouldn't have compared it to the "Estes paper" -- the Estes paper is ridiculous -- you don't have to do much research to see just how ridiculous it is. There are so many untruths, half truths, mistakes, giant leaps in genealogy, and smoke and mirrors etc. And the sad thing is these authors have been confronted with all this and REFUSE to respond. The authors have control over the Rootsweb lists as well as Wikipedia articles -- anyone who disagrees with them are kicked off the list, you are forbidden to even ask questions regarding their dna projects. Do some more research!
  • Linda Bergere We can agree on Genocide at least as a starting point.
  • Joanne Pezzullo Walter Plecker and the Racial Integrity Act
    Walter Plecker, author of the Racial Integrity Act and former head of Virginia’s Vital Statistics, made things very difficult for Virginia’s native groups. He claimed that there were no Indians in the state,
    but only “blacks” and “mulattos”. He and other state officials changed nearly all of the official documents that listed race to classify all of Virginia’s American Indians in one of these two categories. This effectively eliminated the documentary evidence of Virginia’s eight tribes’ existence, an act that has been called “paper genocide”
  • Scott Preston Collins Accomplices to genocide are just as guilty. This means anyone who covers-up genocide, aiding in misrepresentations, such as the Estes report submitted to JOGG, and all the rest of the efforts by Jack Goins, Paul Heinegg, Roberta Estes and Wayne Winkler to dismiss or deny Indian ancestry. These people are accomplices to Genocide...just as guilty as the original perps.
  • Joanne Pezzullo Now go read the Estes paper and tell me you do not see that they are doing the same thing Walter Plecker did! Estes et al says there were no evidence of Indians in the Melungeon ancestry -- they neglected to tell you that 2 of the six subjects in the mtdna had Native ancestry on their paternal side. -- Smoke and mirrors - they completely left out Freeman and Lawson, both identified as Melungeons and both with Q hg.
  • Scott Preston Collins They also fail to mention that R1a and R1b are Native American Haplo-groups as well European. Haplogroup R1 (Y-DNA) (specially R1b) is the second most predominant Y haplotype found among indigenous Amerindians after Q (Y-DNA).[37] The distribution of R1 is believed to be associated with the re-settlement of Eurasia following the last glacial maximum. One theory put forth is that it entered the Americas with the initial founding population.[34] A second theory is that it was introduced during European colonization.[37] R1 is very common throughout all of Eurasia except East Asia and Southeast Asia. R1 (M137) is found predominantly in North American groups like the Ojibwe (79%), Chipewyan (62%), Seminole (50%), Cherokee (47%), Dogrib (40%) and Papago (38%).[37] The principal-component analysis suggests a close genetic relatedness between some North American Amerindians (the Chipewyan and the Cheyenne) and certain populations of central/southern Siberia, at the resolution of major Y-chromosome haplogroups. This pattern agrees with the distribution of mtDNA haplogroup X, which is found in North America, is absent from eastern Siberia, but is present in the Altais of southern central Siberia.[34][38][39]"
    Am J Hum Genet. 2003 November; 73(5): 1178–1190. Published online 2003 October 20.
    PMCID: PMC1180497
  • Joanne Pezzullo And furthermore go check the Lumbee Indian project - half the names are in the Melungeon project -- and Estes is administator of both projects .. but there was no Indian ancestry ...
  • Scott Preston Collins I counted at least 400+ projects Estes has her hand in either as admin. or as consultant.
  • Joanne Pezzullo I believe that Estes wrote in her 2009 paper WHERE HAVE ALL THE INDIANS GONE that the majority of TRIBAL CHEROKEE DNA has shown up so far ***R1b*** they don't mention that in their DNA report either do they? Folks you are being mislead!
  • Linda Bergere Why aren't you folks watching modern day warriors. The Superbowl is on you know:)
  • Joanne Pezzullo I really don't have trouble doing 3 things at one time
  • Linda Bergere Me either. Haha!
  • Scott Preston Collins Genocide: ...any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: B. causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group...
    Goins and Estes both have caused
    serious mental harm to a great many of us with their lies and misinformation campaign. They have done the same thing through the media that Plecker did through the media; i.e. smear our communities and denials of Indianess. Plecker did this, Heinegg did this, DeMarce did this, Goins did this and Estes did this. None of them are innocent and all of them have done this on the backs of racist and eugenics based genocidal activities against Indian Peoples...Our Peoples.
  • Scott Preston Collins They also meet condition C. of the definition of Genocide: C. deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part...
  • Scott Preston Collins By promoting false ideas and misinformation about our communities and families they have perpetuated stero-types, which keep our people divided, fighting amonst themselves and setting wedge issues into the communty which has the effect of destroying the communities ability to maintain group cohesion.
  • Scott Preston Collins Article III: The following acts shall be punishable:

    A. Genocide


    C. DIRECT and PUBLIC INCITEMENT to commit genocide

    D. Attempt to commit genocide


    An ethnic group is a set of individuals whose identity is defined by common cultural traditions, language or heritage.
  • Scott Preston Collins Jack Goins, Paul Heinegg and Virginia DeMarce have conspired for years. They are friends and research buddies. All three have used public media to promote discord and misinformation. Paul Heinegg and Virginia DeMarce have both been responsible for keeping Indian communities from being Federally Recognized (see the Lumbee Senate Committee Hearings). Jack Goins joined their ilk in 2005 when he got his DNA test back confirming something he full well knew to be true; which was that his family had African ancestry. This fact was known because historical accounts made note of it and our families said it was so when asked. The DNA simply confirmed what we all already knew about Jack's family.
  • Scott Preston Collins They have all at this piont publically INCITED the same information that has been said about our communities for years by Eugenicists and racists. Through these actions they are all COMPLITE in upholding the GENOCIDE of Native Americans by attempting to bolster such notions with falcious and inaccurate suedo-scientific mumbo-jumbo.
  • Linda Bergere What's going on with the Mahenips Saponi Tribe in Willow Springs, Missouri? That is my hometown and I lost touch with those folks!

    Do you have the Lumbee Senate Hearings referenced in this page? Send me a link if not. Puhleese.
    Power went out in Super Bowl Stadium. Hmmm
  • Scott Preston Collins If you believe Jack Goins and Roberta Estes then you believe anything in order to keep from admitting to the Native American Indian ancestory. Here is the link Linda Bergere:
  • Scott Preston Collins "First, there are serious problems with the tribal and individual
    identity of the Lumbee. Credible experts in the area of genealogy, who are not affiliated with the Eastern Band, have reached difficult
    conclusions concerning Lumbee identity that this
    Committee should not ignore. Paul Heinegg, whose work has been recognized by The American Society of Genealogists, concludes that the Lumbee are ``an invented North Carolina Indian tribe,'' 1 and that many of the
    persons who first self-identified as Indian in Robeson County, North
    Carolina, are not of Indian ancestry."
  • Scott Preston Collins "Another indisputable expert in this area is Dr. Virginia DeMarce,
    who formerly served as Chair of the National Genealogical Association
    and as an expert in this area at the Department of the Interior. Dr.
    DeMarce concludes from her genealogical studies that many Lumbee
    families do not originate from the Robeson, North Carolina, area, but
    migrated there from other places."
  • Scott Preston Collins The Federal Criteria in fact states, "1) Evidence acceptable to the Secretary which can be used for this purpose includes but is not limited to: (v) Other records or evidence identifying present members or ancestors of present members as being descendants of a historical tribe or tribes that combined and functioned as a single autonomous political entity." This section here should have been enough to shoot down Virginia Demarce's assumption.
  • Linda Bergere This is a tragedy!! I had no idea this was going on. That was an enlightening document to say the least. Very sad. IDLE no more. I will write letters. Thank you for sharing yours. I will post this situation on the DAR FB page and present at our State Luncheon. The Daughters would not want this to happen I am sure.
  • Scott Preston Collins I've already addressed the issue of Mahenips Saponi Tribe in Willow Springs, Missouri and John Trullinger on this page too many times to continue repeating myself. Do a search for this page on past posts. Go to the top of this page on the righthand sid...See More
  • Linda Bergere Hey thanks. Like I said I rely on strangers. Haha. Will do.
  • Scott Preston Collins Well both DeMarce and Heinegg have been getting genealogy awards on their faulty misleading and erroneous books and articles. It is a shame and a sham.
  • Joseph Newman Zachariah Minor married Aggie Sizemore on Oct. 18, 1824. Aggie's parents were George Sizemore and Lydia Hagey Sizemore. Georges parents were Edward Sizemore and Elizabeth Jackson. Lydias parents were Owen Sizemore and Betty Bingham.
  • Joseph Newman Edward Sizemore; d.1810; Hawkins Co., TN Haplogroup Q
  • Joseph Newman Jogg article: Sizemore*

    White (5)


    White (5)

    White (9)

    White (10)

    White (3)

  • Joseph Newman "To date, only one of the Melungeon ancestral families, Sizemore, has been found with a Native American haplogroup." Jogg article.....yet Jack Goins says he comes from the sizemore family...and states the sizemore family was defiently Native American...yet he runs to the newspapers and media ancestors lied about being indian.
  • Michelle Centers Just to clear something up. We do not have any confirmed parents for George Sizemore b 1750 North Carolina d 1820 North Carolina who married Anna Elizabeth Hart.

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